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	<title>Comments on: Causative Requests (Update)</title>
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	<link>http://howtojaponese.com/2009/10/14/causative-requests/</link>
	<description>How to &#34;Get Used to&#34; Japanese</description>
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		<title>By: How to Japonese&#187; Blog Archive &#187; Procedural Phrases and させていただく</title>
		<link>http://howtojaponese.com/2009/10/14/causative-requests/comment-page-1/#comment-30480</link>
		<dc:creator>How to Japonese&#187; Blog Archive &#187; Procedural Phrases and させていただく</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 May 2011 08:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://howtojaponese.com/?p=1245#comment-30480</guid>
		<description>[...] forgot to note that Matt from No-sword added some awesome comments at the bottom of this post about using Japanese causative as a request. He sums up the situation [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] forgot to note that Matt from No-sword added some awesome comments at the bottom of this post about using Japanese causative as a request. He sums up the situation [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: How to Japonese&#187; Blog Archive &#187; 号外 – もうちょっと聞かせてって言ったでしょう？</title>
		<link>http://howtojaponese.com/2009/10/14/causative-requests/comment-page-1/#comment-2493</link>
		<dc:creator>How to Japonese&#187; Blog Archive &#187; 号外 – もうちょっと聞かせてって言ったでしょう？</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 05:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://howtojaponese.com/?p=1245#comment-2493</guid>
		<description>[...] added a couple of great comments to Wednesday&#8217;s post that are worthy of their own post. Dude, I totally got dinged for calling -te the imperative form [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] added a couple of great comments to Wednesday&#8217;s post that are worthy of their own post. Dude, I totally got dinged for calling -te the imperative form [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://howtojaponese.com/2009/10/14/causative-requests/comment-page-1/#comment-2491</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 05:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://howtojaponese.com/?p=1245#comment-2491</guid>
		<description>Incidentally the case for non-equivalence is more obvious with &quot;kiseru&quot; vs &quot;kisaseru&quot;. The former means &quot;put clothing on someone&quot; (e.g. a child) and the latter means &quot;cause/allow someone to put clothing on&quot;. Because there is an indirect object the difference is more stark, but then compare to &quot;miseru&quot; vs &quot;misaseru&quot; using a fanciful but parallel definition: &quot;put something into someone&#039;s visual cortex&quot; vs &quot;cause/allow someone to put something into their visual cortex&quot;. The difference, or at least the possibility of some speakers keeping the two conceptually separate, becomes a little clearer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally the case for non-equivalence is more obvious with &#8220;kiseru&#8221; vs &#8220;kisaseru&#8221;. The former means &#8220;put clothing on someone&#8221; (e.g. a child) and the latter means &#8220;cause/allow someone to put clothing on&#8221;. Because there is an indirect object the difference is more stark, but then compare to &#8220;miseru&#8221; vs &#8220;misaseru&#8221; using a fanciful but parallel definition: &#8220;put something into someone&#8217;s visual cortex&#8221; vs &#8220;cause/allow someone to put something into their visual cortex&#8221;. The difference, or at least the possibility of some speakers keeping the two conceptually separate, becomes a little clearer.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://howtojaponese.com/2009/10/14/causative-requests/comment-page-1/#comment-2490</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 05:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://howtojaponese.com/?p=1245#comment-2490</guid>
		<description>Dude, I totally got dinged for calling -te the imperative form the other week. You&#039;d better watch your back.

I just want to summarize the &quot;miru 見る is controversial&quot; thing for non-reading linguists: &quot;miru&quot; does indeed become &quot;misaseru&quot; if you add the &quot;-saseru&quot; ending according to modern rules. The controversy is whether it is acceptable to use this form instead of &quot;miseru&quot;, which is a separate verb meaning &quot;show&quot;. As far as I can tell there are two prongs to the controversy: (1) &quot;misaseru&quot; and &quot;miseru&quot; are equivalent, therefore the former is redundant, therefore it should not be used (you wouldn&#039;t say &quot;shisaseru&quot; either, just &quot;saseru&quot;), and (2) &quot;miseru&quot; itself can be analyzed as &quot;miru&quot; + OJ causative suffix, therefore, &quot;misaseru&quot; is an ugly, modern usurper, functionally and semantically identical but aesthetically and morally inferior, and should be avoided. I&#039;ve seen similar complaints about 着せる vs 着させる.

The counterarguments to the above include (1) to some speakers at least, they aren&#039;t equivalent; everyone has &quot;miseru&quot; in their vocabulary, and the fact that some people also use &quot;misaseru&quot; indicates that for them it performs a function that &quot;miseru&quot; can&#039;t, and (2) whatever, dude, living Japanese isn&#039;t bound by your rules and regulations, and these forms sound fine to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dude, I totally got dinged for calling -te the imperative form the other week. You&#8217;d better watch your back.</p>
<p>I just want to summarize the &#8220;miru 見る is controversial&#8221; thing for non-reading linguists: &#8220;miru&#8221; does indeed become &#8220;misaseru&#8221; if you add the &#8220;-saseru&#8221; ending according to modern rules. The controversy is whether it is acceptable to use this form instead of &#8220;miseru&#8221;, which is a separate verb meaning &#8220;show&#8221;. As far as I can tell there are two prongs to the controversy: (1) &#8220;misaseru&#8221; and &#8220;miseru&#8221; are equivalent, therefore the former is redundant, therefore it should not be used (you wouldn&#8217;t say &#8220;shisaseru&#8221; either, just &#8220;saseru&#8221;), and (2) &#8220;miseru&#8221; itself can be analyzed as &#8220;miru&#8221; + OJ causative suffix, therefore, &#8220;misaseru&#8221; is an ugly, modern usurper, functionally and semantically identical but aesthetically and morally inferior, and should be avoided. I&#8217;ve seen similar complaints about 着せる vs 着させる.</p>
<p>The counterarguments to the above include (1) to some speakers at least, they aren&#8217;t equivalent; everyone has &#8220;miseru&#8221; in their vocabulary, and the fact that some people also use &#8220;misaseru&#8221; indicates that for them it performs a function that &#8220;miseru&#8221; can&#8217;t, and (2) whatever, dude, living Japanese isn&#8217;t bound by your rules and regulations, and these forms sound fine to me.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ジュリアン</title>
		<link>http://howtojaponese.com/2009/10/14/causative-requests/comment-page-1/#comment-2478</link>
		<dc:creator>ジュリアン</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://howtojaponese.com/?p=1245#comment-2478</guid>
		<description>In Kansai-ben, 〜して and 〜した are always used in ichidan verbs ending with 〜せる. This includes all causative verbs, as well as verbs such as 見せる, e.g. 「ちょっと見してくれへん？」.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Kansai-ben, 〜して and 〜した are always used in ichidan verbs ending with 〜せる. This includes all causative verbs, as well as verbs such as 見せる, e.g. 「ちょっと見してくれへん？」.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Blue Shoe</title>
		<link>http://howtojaponese.com/2009/10/14/causative-requests/comment-page-1/#comment-2439</link>
		<dc:creator>Blue Shoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://howtojaponese.com/?p=1245#comment-2439</guid>
		<description>Interesting post. Now that I see it mentioned, I believe I&#039;ve heard ~させて slurred to ~さして...but I never really consciously connected it as a grammar point before. I guess it&#039;s just one of those things, like how すみません can be slurred to すません or すいません.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post. Now that I see it mentioned, I believe I&#8217;ve heard ~させて slurred to ~さして&#8230;but I never really consciously connected it as a grammar point before. I guess it&#8217;s just one of those things, like how すみません can be slurred to すません or すいません.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://howtojaponese.com/2009/10/14/causative-requests/comment-page-1/#comment-2428</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://howtojaponese.com/?p=1245#comment-2428</guid>
		<description>聞かせて it&#039;s very useful too. I use it a lot since i discovered it :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>聞かせて it&#8217;s very useful too. I use it a lot since i discovered it :)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://howtojaponese.com/2009/10/14/causative-requests/comment-page-1/#comment-2423</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://howtojaponese.com/?p=1245#comment-2423</guid>
		<description>Jean: No problem. I&#039;ll update the post.

Soma: Now that you mention it, I&#039;m not sure if I hear the さして in Tokyo or on TV more often. I think it might be universal, though...if I was hearing it only on TV it&#039;d have to be Kansai-ben.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jean: No problem. I&#8217;ll update the post.</p>
<p>Soma: Now that you mention it, I&#8217;m not sure if I hear the さして in Tokyo or on TV more often. I think it might be universal, though&#8230;if I was hearing it only on TV it&#8217;d have to be Kansai-ben.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: soma36</title>
		<link>http://howtojaponese.com/2009/10/14/causative-requests/comment-page-1/#comment-2420</link>
		<dc:creator>soma36</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://howtojaponese.com/?p=1245#comment-2420</guid>
		<description>Do you hear the　さして in Tokyo much? I use it all of the time now, but I suspect that might be familial influence/local Fukushima-ben. For 見る or 見せる often just 見して is used.......I am not even so sure that is super casual - I have heard things like ちょっと飲まさしてもらえない？ used　as in &quot;let me have a little taste/sip&quot;

Anyway, good tip. Possibly limited to a view verbs however maybe?  Group 1 -る verbs would not work for starters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you hear the　さして in Tokyo much? I use it all of the time now, but I suspect that might be familial influence/local Fukushima-ben. For 見る or 見せる often just 見して is used&#8230;&#8230;.I am not even so sure that is super casual &#8211; I have heard things like ちょっと飲まさしてもらえない？ used　as in &#8220;let me have a little taste/sip&#8221;</p>
<p>Anyway, good tip. Possibly limited to a view verbs however maybe?  Group 1 -る verbs would not work for starters.</p>
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		<title>By: Jean</title>
		<link>http://howtojaponese.com/2009/10/14/causative-requests/comment-page-1/#comment-2412</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://howtojaponese.com/?p=1245#comment-2412</guid>
		<description>ooh, do translate for us linguists who study the Japanese causative yet are kanji/hiragana illiterate.  I know the causative verbs end in -(s)aseru or -(s)aseta.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ooh, do translate for us linguists who study the Japanese causative yet are kanji/hiragana illiterate.  I know the causative verbs end in -(s)aseru or -(s)aseta.</p>
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